'You can't turn back the ocean': MTV's Kurt Loder on the delusions of celebrity culture, the coming collapse of mainstream media outlets, and the rising tide of free expression that can't be stopped.

• Author: Gillespie, Nick
• Position: Culture and Reviews - Interview

KURT LODER HAS been chronicling cutting-edge culture in the United States since the 1970s, first with the defunct rock magazine Circus and then during a legendary stint at Rolling Stone. Along the way, he co-authored Tina Turner's memoir, which became the basis for the hit movie What's Love Got To Do With It. In 1988 Loder joined MTV as a news anchor and now, among other tasks, serves as the channel's film critic. His weekly reviews, available online at mtv.com, are as broad in their selection of films as they are incisive in their analysis.

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Consider Loder's take on Michael Moore's health care documentary Sicko. "As a proud socialist, the director appears to feel that there are few problems in life that can't be solved by government regulation (that would be the same government that's already given us the U.S. Postal Service and the Department of Motor Vehicles)," wrote Loder, a military veteran, in June. "What's the problem with government health systems? Moore's movie doesn't ask that question, although it does unintentionally provide an answer. When governments attempt to regulate the balance between a limited supply of health care and an unlimited demand for it they're inevitably forced to ration treatment."

Born in Ocean City, New Jersey, in 1945, Loder is unabashedly libertarian in his politics and optimistic in his cultural outlook. As part of the October conference "Reason in D.C.," Editor-in-Chief Nick Gillespie interviewed Loder on the impact of technology (liberating), the rise of celebrity culture (noxious), the growth of the nanny state (really noxious), and the future of mass media (grim, but that's a good thing). What follows is an edited transcript, with audience questions mixed directly into the discussion for readability. The full interview can be viewed at reason.tv; comments should be sent to letters@ reason.com.

reason: Major record companies complain they're losing market share and revenue. Major daily newspapers say the same thing. Broadcast networks still command a huge audience, but it's much smaller than before. The big outlets don't seem to have the monopoly on audience they once did. Is the decentralization of audience, of culture, a good thing?

Kurt Loder: We're better off with new technology. Music is proliferating in a way it never has before. CDs are over. DVDS will soon be over. You'll download this stuff. I think it's a good thing. Record companies will change. They'll have to.

Copyright is going to be the big change. I think creators should be paid for their work. I'm on that side of the debate. If you make a record, you should be paid for it. Record companies do pay artists for the music they make, eventually. It's remarkable how little they pay them--initially, especially. If you're a young band, you're going to make nothing originally. Maybe on your third record, you'll start making money. It's pretty amazing.

We used to live in a command-media world. You had no choice but to look at NBC, CBS, ABC...