Business can get its way without buying influence.

• Position: Economic Outlook - Interview with Wake Forest's Babcock Graduate School of Management assistant professor Michael Lord - Interview

Michael Lord, an assistant professor of management at Wake Forest's Babcock Graduate School of Management, studies how business can influence public policy. Here he takes his national research and explains how Tar Heel companies can make themselves heard both locally and in Washington, D.C.

BNC: Seems you've found money can't buy votes?

Lord: Exactly. It's helpful, and it's part of the mix. But money does not influence public policy nearly as much as everyone thinks it does. Especially on big issues that get a lot of attention in the media or among voters, grassroots support is absolutely essential.

But companies often start off wrong, with what you call Astroturf.

One of the first things they do is spend money. Those PAC contributions and professional lobbyists only get you so far, often not very far. Then they try the same approach to grassroots activities. They throw money at it by hiring consultants to generate letters and phone calls. That can backfire because it looks like a rigged effort to buy an issue, generating Astroturf - fake grassroots support. Legislators see through the mass e-mails and mass postcards.

So what's the best way to organize grassroots efforts?

The more sincere and authentic it is, the more you can get different stakeholders educated on an issue and have them call or write their legislator, the better. Employees are usually the easiest to get involved and the most effective.

Yo think tobacco is particularly effective?

They have an integrated strategy, with more kinds of stakeholders involved than any other industry. It involves contributions, lobbyists, advertising. But it also involves executives, smokers, employees, managers. Farmers have always been an effective lobby. Tobacco companies are also very good at getting customers involved, more than any other industry I can think of. Not only does tobacco get people involved, it gets them involved effectively, on smoking rights, taxation. By phone, letter. Pretty much anything and everything.

You say North Carolina utilities are encouraging shareholders to contact legislators. Is that unusual?

It is. It's not always the most effective method. But utilities are special because they have a lot of investors who bought stocks as safe investments with a steady dividend. Retirees, people who have more time to write to or phone their state legislator. So some utilities like CP&L have tried to mobilize their shareholders. They have...