Bob Herbert.

• Author: Sherman, Scott
• Position: 'New York Times' columnist - Interview

Like Jacob Riis, whose 1890 book, How the Other Half Lives, exposed the volcano under the city" of New York, Bob Herbert writes about America's lost and forgotten. His twice-weekly op-ed column in The New York Times, "In America," hammers away at the ugly reality of corporate greed and chicanery, the unending cycle of urban violence, the cowardice of politicians, and the declining living standard of the American worker. Like Jimmy Breslin, Pete Hamill, and Jim Dwyer, Herbert is a storyteller, and his narratives seek to arouse indignation and fury among the Times's readership.

"In America" is refreshingly blunt, its prose style quite unlike the sedate tone of most Times writing. Here is Herbert on The Bell Curve: "A scabrous piece of racial pornography masquerading as serious scholarship." On US. corporations: "Most will follow the trail of profits no matter how gruesome the human costs." On inner-city schools: "Death is so prevalent that some schools are equipped with mourning rooms." On affirmative action: "If you believe there is a bias against white males in hiring, just pair up a white guy with a black guy and send them off in search of the same job."

Herbert is the first black op-ed columnist in the history of the Times. Before joining the paper in 1993, he worked for nearly seventeen years as a reporter, editor, and columnist for the New York Daily News. He began his career as a reporter on The Star-Ledger of Newark, New Jersey, and has worked as a correspondent for NBC Network News.

I spoke with Herbert on April 27 in his spacious, tenth-floor office at the Times, which affords a stunning view of Manhattan. Newspapers and magazines were scattered everywhere, and works by Thomas Mann, Norman Mailer, and Italo Calvino lined the bookshelves. Q: How has the column been received? Bob Herbert: The column has been received really well. It's very gratifying. Q: What inspired you to write when you were growing up? Herbert: I was reading newspapers from the time I was five years old. I would read anything. I especially liked Dickens, and I read Oliver Twist when I was about nine. I remember being awed. It never occurred to me that there was this kind of power in literature. So my little mind was won over. Q: What is your proudest accomplishment as a journalist? Herbert: If I were to look back at old columns and saw a few well-crafted paragraphs, that would make me smile. Q: It seems to me that you frequently pull your punches. If you were to write a series of pieces, for example, on the benefits of proportional representation compared to our current "winner-take-all" system of electing lawmakers, it would get people talking. A columnist such as William Safire writes with an incredible sense of confidence. He's not afraid to dispense advice to politicians and elites. Herbert: When I write a column, I tend to think of the issue I'm writing about, the people I've talked to in connection with that issue, and my views, which are often very personal. And then it is crafted into 750 words. It is not my idea that I am sending these thunderbolts of enlightenment out there. Q: Your column is filled with the eloquent voices of ordinary people. How do you win their trust? Herbert: It has to do with empathy, and I think people pick up on that. But the most important thing is reporting skills. If you go out into the streets with a notebook and a pen and talk to people, you will get stories. For the most part, people want to talk about their lives. They want to talk about things that are important. They want attention paid to them. Moreover, people really have something to say. Q: Why have so many Americans stopped caring about the plight of cities? Herbert: It's a question of leadership. The public will follow strong leadership in almost any direction. It will follow Lyndon Johnson to the left or Reagan to the right. If Bill Clinton had been a very strong leader, the country would have followed him. Q: How does it make you feel when Democrats and Republicans talk about finding "common ground" on welfare reform? Herbert: The term "welfare reform" really upsets me because nobody is talking about welfare reform. What they are talking about is throwing people off welfare, throwing needy people to the wolves. Democrats and Republicans are both playing the same game. And I think it is an evil game.

Bill Clinton, when he started talking about changing "welfare as we know it," was playing the demagogue. That was his biggest applause line during the Presidential campaign. Well, the people were applauding him because they had it in their heads that when Clinton said change welfare, he's going to throw them off the rolls. That was divisive and racist on Clinton's part.

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